Beyond L20 - Page 2 - Guild Wars Forums

imnotyourmother · Apr 06, 2010, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Post removed - not helpful to the OP

Voodoo Rage · Apr 06, 2010, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Don't feel bad. That mission really kicked my butt to when I first started. If you do have other campaigns, especially Nightfall, I would advise going over there for a while to build up your heroes and capture some elite skills. Yes, make sure ALL of your armor is maxed at 60 with survivor and appropriate runes (don't run anything right now with superior or major on it). A minion master hero will really make your life easier. Check with wiki on what you need to do to get Olias (or maybe Livia), necromancer heroes. I agree that MOX isn't the greatest hero (minimally put him on guard mode so he isn't drawing a ton of enemies to you). If you have Eye of the North, you can pop over there and get Vekk (elementalist) and Ogden Stonehealer (monk) very easily, they are level 20. Also there are tons of those summoning stones floating around right now, pop one of those when in the mission (one more helping hand never hurts).

Also, as mentioned (I assume this is a Factions character), make sure you have done your ATTRIBUTE quests. Reduce your attributes all to zero and you should have 200 points. If not there are two easy quests on Sheng Jea island that you need to do. (check the wiki under attribute quests for details)

Laraja · Apr 06, 2010, 06:17 PM // 18:17

I'm surprised no one has mention this but... are you in a guild? I have to say that it wasn't until I joined a good guild that I truly learned how to play GW. Watching how experienced people play, approach groups, flag heros and such is invaluable, strategies that are difficult to understand and learn when you're by yourself. There are a lot of guilds out there who would be happy to help you. Just make sure and ask if there is a good mix of experienced people vs. new people because a new guild full of new people is not going to help you.

I remember the desert and hated it when I was new so I completely understand where you're coming from.

Take your character over to Night Fall as soon as possible and grab better heros. Especially helpful is the quest for Olias, the necromancer. MOX is awful as people have said.

Xenex Xclame · Apr 06, 2010, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Edit:My rant was unhelpful for OP,removed.

Faye Aeris · Apr 07, 2010, 05:21 AM // 05:21

Once you hit level 20, it is only the beginning of your journey. The keys to success in PvE, ranked in order of importance are as follows:

1. Builds
2. Player Skill
3. Equipment

First off, in order to succeed in the build department, you have to make sure of a few things.

1. Do you have enough energy to use all of your skills on a regular basis?
2. Exactly how much positive benefit does your build bring to the team?

The energy issue is usually solved by elementalists by utilizing attunements, or various skills in energy storage. Note: DO NOT rely solely on an elementalist's large energy pool to sustain you. A higher amount of maximum energy does not equal better energy management.

Truthfully, the real problem with elementalists in PvE is the 2nd issue: The amount of benefit that their build brings to PvE. Now, even in normal mode, elementalist damage is pitiful. Even with their most powerful spells, they can only deal around 100 damage shots, and take quite a while to do it. In addition, this damage is affected by armor, reducing the classic elementalist nuker's usefulness in Hard Mode to around 0. Compare this to Assassins and Warriors, who can soak up more damage and can easily do around 150 damage in a single second consistently.

The point is, as an elementalist, you need to pick and choose carefully what skills you bring. Try to bring something that is efficient in conserving energy, and gives the team the most 'bang for its buck'. What I recommend is utilizing the popular skill Ether Renewal as a backbone for energy management, and abusing its effect to spam powerful, costly monk skills. More information can be found in the Campfire section under the topic of ER Physicalway.

Next, let's move on to the second main aspect of PvE: player skill. This is the reason why PvP players ridicule PvE so much. In order to succeed in PvE, it is often possible to play with suboptimal builds and not constantly have to be at 100% alertness. However, I do recommend that you understand exactly how your build works, what the skills in your build do, and how to adapt your build to different circumstances. Don't just play through the game spamming your big nukes without first understanding their areas of effect, their type of damage, and how to best choose your targets.

Finally, the least most important aspect of PvE is the kind of equipment you have. Make sure you have maximum armor, with runes and insignias all equipped. Make sure your weapon suits your purpose and is of the same attribute that you're using. Make sure the mods on your weapons are suitable. It's not really that important, but try to have multiple sets of weapons to suit your needs. I personally carry around a defensive set, a casting set, and a high-energy set.

Now, just 1 player having a good build is not enough. Playing with heroes and henchmen means you will always have at least 4 henchmen playing with suboptimal builds. To compensate, you must also make sure your heroes are tuned to be the best they can. Make sure they have prodigious amounts of energy management, and make sure their skills are effective. In today's PvE metagame, Necromancer and Ritualist heroes are particularly effective in nearly every situation. Necromancer heroes tend to be set up as a variation of discordway, but you can also set them up as spirit spammers, minion masters (not bombers), N/Rt healers, or anything that abuses the Soul Reaping engine. Ritualist heroes are particularly effective since the recent buff of spirits, and just throwing Signet of Spirits, Signet of Ghostly Might, or Soul Twisting with a bunch of random spirits on the bar along with some energy management tends to win PvE.

One thing you must remember is that heroes and henchmen are not the same as people. That is, they do some things better than people and some things worse. For example, since the AI knows exactly what every monster is doing at any given time, they are great at spamming heals on players that need it. They are also great at interrupting skills. What they are not great at is prediction. They cannot preprot in order to prevent damage spikes. In other words, heroes and henchmen play reactively, not proactively. Give a hero something that requires superhuman reflexes or tedious minion management, and they will succeed. Give them something that requires actual thought, and they will fail.

To really succeed in the game, you must have a good understanding of game mechanics. Try to at least have a rudimentary understanding of how damage is calculated, in order to best set up your builds to deal the most damage possible. Make sure you read the wiki and check which skills ignore armor and which skills don't. Sometimes skill descriptions are not entirely accurate, and the wiki is useful in that it tells you what the error in the description is.

For further information about the builds I've discussed in this post, refer to:
http://pvx.wikia.com/

Note: Try to not take the builds listed on PvX as scripture. Use the skills listed there as a starting point, then modify to suit your playing style. Make sure you understand the concepts behind builds, and the effects that any modifications you make may have.

To learn more about the game and how its various mechanics and skills work, go to:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/
http://guildwars.wikia.com/

tl;dr: Use overpowered skills, armor ignoring damage, and energy management to win PvE. Also, abuse hero AI.

P.S. Please, please, PLEASE do not get stuck with the notion that certain professions are 'supposed to' do certain things. For example, EVERYONE knows that monks are 'supposed to' heal and elementalists are 'supposed to' nuke. However, my personal belief is that a class should do what works best given its set of skills and attributes. If a monk playing smiter does better damage than a fire elementalist, so be it. Conversely, if an elementalist playing ER healer can heal and prot better than a monk can, why not let them? I believe in efficiency, not stupid tradition.

Apr 06, 2010, 03:29 PM // 15:29	#21
imnotyourmother Desert Nomad Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: in a house Guild: The Knitters Guild Profession: W/R	Post removed - not helpful to the OP Last edited by imnotyourmother; Apr 08, 2010 at 12:55 PM // 12:55.. Reason: Not helpful to the op

Apr 06, 2010, 03:44 PM // 15:44	#22
Voodoo Rage Desert Nomad Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Sacramento, CA Guild: Geezers Profession: R/	Don't feel bad. That mission really kicked my butt to when I first started. If you do have other campaigns, especially Nightfall, I would advise going over there for a while to build up your heroes and capture some elite skills. Yes, make sure ALL of your armor is maxed at 60 with survivor and appropriate runes (don't run anything right now with superior or major on it). A minion master hero will really make your life easier. Check with wiki on what you need to do to get Olias (or maybe Livia), necromancer heroes. I agree that MOX isn't the greatest hero (minimally put him on guard mode so he isn't drawing a ton of enemies to you). If you have Eye of the North, you can pop over there and get Vekk (elementalist) and Ogden Stonehealer (monk) very easily, they are level 20. Also there are tons of those summoning stones floating around right now, pop one of those when in the mission (one more helping hand never hurts). Also, as mentioned (I assume this is a Factions character), make sure you have done your ATTRIBUTE quests. Reduce your attributes all to zero and you should have 200 points. If not there are two easy quests on Sheng Jea island that you need to do. (check the wiki under attribute quests for details) Last edited by Voodoo Rage; Apr 06, 2010 at 04:24 PM // 16:24..

Apr 06, 2010, 06:30 PM // 18:30	#24
Xenex Xclame Desert Nomad Join Date: Mar 2006 Guild: DPX Profession: R/	Edit:My rant was unhelpful for OP,removed. Last edited by Xenex Xclame; Apr 08, 2010 at 03:18 PM // 15:18..

Apr 07, 2010, 05:21 AM // 05:21	#25
Faye Aeris Academy Page Join Date: May 2008 Guild: Teh Dark Empire Profession: R/	Once you hit level 20, it is only the beginning of your journey. The keys to success in PvE, ranked in order of importance are as follows: 1. Builds 2. Player Skill 3. Equipment First off, in order to succeed in the build department, you have to make sure of a few things. 1. Do you have enough energy to use all of your skills on a regular basis? 2. Exactly how much positive benefit does your build bring to the team? The energy issue is usually solved by elementalists by utilizing attunements, or various skills in energy storage. Note: DO NOT rely solely on an elementalist's large energy pool to sustain you. A higher amount of maximum energy does not equal better energy management. Truthfully, the real problem with elementalists in PvE is the 2nd issue: The amount of benefit that their build brings to PvE. Now, even in normal mode, elementalist damage is pitiful. Even with their most powerful spells, they can only deal around 100 damage shots, and take quite a while to do it. In addition, this damage is affected by armor, reducing the classic elementalist nuker's usefulness in Hard Mode to around 0. Compare this to Assassins and Warriors, who can soak up more damage and can easily do around 150 damage in a single second consistently. The point is, as an elementalist, you need to pick and choose carefully what skills you bring. Try to bring something that is efficient in conserving energy, and gives the team the most 'bang for its buck'. What I recommend is utilizing the popular skill Ether Renewal as a backbone for energy management, and abusing its effect to spam powerful, costly monk skills. More information can be found in the Campfire section under the topic of ER Physicalway. Next, let's move on to the second main aspect of PvE: player skill. This is the reason why PvP players ridicule PvE so much. In order to succeed in PvE, it is often possible to play with suboptimal builds and not constantly have to be at 100% alertness. However, I do recommend that you understand exactly how your build works, what the skills in your build do, and how to adapt your build to different circumstances. Don't just play through the game spamming your big nukes without first understanding their areas of effect, their type of damage, and how to best choose your targets. Finally, the least most important aspect of PvE is the kind of equipment you have. Make sure you have maximum armor, with runes and insignias all equipped. Make sure your weapon suits your purpose and is of the same attribute that you're using. Make sure the mods on your weapons are suitable. It's not really that important, but try to have multiple sets of weapons to suit your needs. I personally carry around a defensive set, a casting set, and a high-energy set. Now, just 1 player having a good build is not enough. Playing with heroes and henchmen means you will always have at least 4 henchmen playing with suboptimal builds. To compensate, you must also make sure your heroes are tuned to be the best they can. Make sure they have prodigious amounts of energy management, and make sure their skills are effective. In today's PvE metagame, Necromancer and Ritualist heroes are particularly effective in nearly every situation. Necromancer heroes tend to be set up as a variation of discordway, but you can also set them up as spirit spammers, minion masters (not bombers), N/Rt healers, or anything that abuses the Soul Reaping engine. Ritualist heroes are particularly effective since the recent buff of spirits, and just throwing Signet of Spirits, Signet of Ghostly Might, or Soul Twisting with a bunch of random spirits on the bar along with some energy management tends to win PvE. One thing you must remember is that heroes and henchmen are not the same as people. That is, they do some things better than people and some things worse. For example, since the AI knows exactly what every monster is doing at any given time, they are great at spamming heals on players that need it. They are also great at interrupting skills. What they are not great at is prediction. They cannot preprot in order to prevent damage spikes. In other words, heroes and henchmen play reactively, not proactively. Give a hero something that requires superhuman reflexes or tedious minion management, and they will succeed. Give them something that requires actual thought, and they will fail. To really succeed in the game, you must have a good understanding of game mechanics. Try to at least have a rudimentary understanding of how damage is calculated, in order to best set up your builds to deal the most damage possible. Make sure you read the wiki and check which skills ignore armor and which skills don't. Sometimes skill descriptions are not entirely accurate, and the wiki is useful in that it tells you what the error in the description is. For further information about the builds I've discussed in this post, refer to: http://pvx.wikia.com/ Note: Try to not take the builds listed on PvX as scripture. Use the skills listed there as a starting point, then modify to suit your playing style. Make sure you understand the concepts behind builds, and the effects that any modifications you make may have. To learn more about the game and how its various mechanics and skills work, go to: http://wiki.guildwars.com/ http://guildwars.wikia.com/ tl;dr: Use overpowered skills, armor ignoring damage, and energy management to win PvE. Also, abuse hero AI. P.S. Please, please, PLEASE do not get stuck with the notion that certain professions are 'supposed to' do certain things. For example, EVERYONE knows that monks are 'supposed to' heal and elementalists are 'supposed to' nuke. However, my personal belief is that a class should do what works best given its set of skills and attributes. If a monk playing smiter does better damage than a fire elementalist, so be it. Conversely, if an elementalist playing ER healer can heal and prot better than a monk can, why not let them? I believe in efficiency, not stupid tradition. Last edited by Faye Aeris; Apr 07, 2010 at 05:36 AM // 05:36..

Apr 06, 2010, 06:17 PM // 18:17	#23
Laraja Krytan Explorer Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Somewhere over the rainbow Guild: Descendents of Honor Profession: Rt/	I'm surprised no one has mention this but... are you in a guild? I have to say that it wasn't until I joined a good guild that I truly learned how to play GW. Watching how experienced people play, approach groups, flag heros and such is invaluable, strategies that are difficult to understand and learn when you're by yourself. There are a lot of guilds out there who would be happy to help you. Just make sure and ask if there is a good mix of experienced people vs. new people because a new guild full of new people is not going to help you. I remember the desert and hated it when I was new so I completely understand where you're coming from. Take your character over to Night Fall as soon as possible and grab better heros. Especially helpful is the quest for Olias, the necromancer. MOX is awful as people have said.